What The Fricative
What The Fricative
The Journey to and through Grad School with Cerebral Palsy with Angie Evenich
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Angela Evenich (she/her) is a self-proclaimed disability activist and disabled graduate student studying Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences at San Francisco State University (Graduated May 2023 | Class of 2023). Her passion for empowering others as a speech-language therapist is fueled by her experiences with disability advocacy, receiving disability-related services, and navigating the world as someone with cerebral palsy.
Hello everyone. And thank you so much for joining us on the what the fricative podcast. We have our lovely friend here, Angie Evanage, and she's going to talk to us about very important stuff here. Angie's a self proclaimed disability. Activists and disabled graduate student who has some important things to talk about with us today. There's a lot of ableism that goes on within the world, but also specifically in the world of speech pathology that needs to be spoken about. So today we're going to talk about that really important conversation. But before we get to all that important stuff, Angie, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are outside of the speech pathology world? Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, my name's Angie. Let's see. I'm a twin. I have a twin sister that she's a fraternal twin. So she doesn't look like me. And she actually has brown hair. So we have different colored hair. So with that family is really big to me. Community is really big to me. I'm really close to my friends and family. So community is something I'm sure I'll talk about later, too. Community is something that's always been super important to me. Besides that, I am pretty sassy. I'm sassy. I'm short. I'm, like, this five foot, really sassy person. I use my hands to talk a lot. So that's... about me. I'm just a really big like community person and people person. And yeah, that's awesome. Even though you guys are fraternal, do you still have twin telepathy? I okay. We get that question a lot. And I think we do just because we will say the same thing, or like we're thinking the same thing. And I feel like we can just look at each other and we understand like what we're trying to like, say, yeah. That's so awesome. I've always wondered what it's like to have a twin. I have a younger brother and we're 14 months apart. So we're almost Irish twins. But same kind of thing. Like your sister, I have curly hair and I'm tan skin and he is like very fair skin and has straight hair. And when I tell people, Oh yeah, we're siblings. They're like, Oh, from the same mom or dad. I'm like, no, both. We just aren't a super mixed race. Yeah. Yeah. That's how we are too. Like people think we're best friends, like they never guessed that we're sisters. And then when we tell them like, yeah, we're sisters, but we're also like twins, like what? That's so funny. That's awesome. I'm so glad that you have her and she has you. So talking a little bit about speech pathology. I know you're in graduate school now but how was your journey up into kind of applying to graduate school? Was speech pathology something that you always knew you wanted to do or at what point did that kind of come into your career path? Yeah, so I knew I wanted to be a speech therapist in high school. I was born with cerebral palsy, which is a disability that usually is caused by damage to a developing brain, and it impacts like physical stuff. So balance, motor coordination, things like that. So growing up, I went to like speech, occupational therapy, and physical therapy. So therapy was a really big part of my life growing up all the way through high school. And then I stopped, like I stopped speech right before high school. I stopped a couple other things. But when I got into high school, I feel like that's when I started learning more about disability identity and how other people. seeing me as a disabled person because my disability is a visible one. So I feel like growing up, I always had a team, like I had my IEP team around me. And I feel like junior year of high school was when everyone was talking about what they were going to do for college, what they were going to do after. And my teachers and stuff never really asked me what I wanted to do and I that's when I realized I was pushed to the side in that way. All my friends, everyone else was like, had plans and stuff, but no one really asked me and then I remember the moment I decided I wanted to be an SLP was I was a junior in high school and we had chemistry. My chemistry class and the teacher for that class had us like bringing these big books, like these like big textbooks to class every single day. And so for me, having CP, it was really hard for me to carry them. So when I would, and then I started. Like the whole class realized that we never use them. So this teacher wanted us to lug around these really like big, thick books, and we never use them. So all of us stopped bringing them to class. And then one day he like went around the room. And said, I'm going to give everyone detention that does not have their book. And like, all of us got detention. And I remember texting my mom and telling her because she picked me up after school. I was like, yeah, pick me up later because I have detention. And she was like, for what? And I said, oh, for because I didn't read my chemistry textbook. And she was like, Angie, it's in your IEP that you get a copy of textbooks. In each room, like each teacher has to have a copy of textbooks for you, because it's hard for you to carry them with your disability. And I had no idea. And the teachers didn't know either. And at that point, then that's when I like send this email to my counselor or someone, and I explained It's on the teachers to, to meet the IEP, like not me to fit in to do what everyone else is doing. So that moment, like it's a funny story, but it's like that moment really shifted my thinking more into advocacy. And then I remember my whole IEP team had a meeting about it and at that time I was in speech. And so I thought about who on this team is missing that could help with communication and advocacy. So then I thought of SLP and that's in my mind when I connected advocacy. With speech and communication, and then I thought what who is teaching disabled people how to advocate for themselves? Because if I never said anything, or if people don't say anything, they're going to get I say, lost in the system. But that's what I thought. Of it. So that's how I decided I wanted to be an SLP because I wanted to work with disabled people in like advocacy and communication. Long story, but that's how I got decided I wanted to do it. No, and I love that. And I think that this whole idea that disabled people shouldn't don't deserve a spot in the world of speech pathology and in the world in general is such a frustrating. statement that anyone can ever make. Because people with any sort of disability, people with any sort of trauma, have such a different experience when they're teaching someone else about something that they've already been through. It gives them so much insight into, what's actually going on. I've been through this, so I'm going to tell you all the great things that have come out of this because I've already been through this. And I think that is just what we need in this world of speech pathology, diversity in all parts of the spectrum because as someone who went into speech, I don't have a disability, I think that I have ADHD, I probably do, but but I did come in with experience of my mom having to have a speech therapist in the hospital when she was sick, and I had the family part of it and I go into each session, knowing what it's like to be on the other side of just a professional spewing out all these big words to you and you'd be like, okay. I'm just going to google it. It's just that feeling of knowing how it feels to be on the other side. So you treat just the world of your, just your clinical world so much different. Yeah, no, I agree. And I feel like that's not talked about, at least in The environments that I've been in, it was never talked about or celebrated to have any kind of personal experience with speech therapy, but I think it is important because we have different insights. Like you said, exactly. And I'm sure we'll talk about later about how. You having a disability and being a professional in a profession, like a professional position with your clients, just make them see someone who's, you can be successful and have a disability. You can be successful and have trauma. There's just so many opportunities now for us to talk about all these things openly and just say so many people have been going through this privately, feeling like they can't talk to anyone. But now, why don't we just talk about it openly, so we can really just talk to all the people who have been going through this silently, and now we can talk about it together as a community. Yeah, I agree. I think that's really important to. Yeah. Yeah. So how was your application journey to graduate school? I can only imagine how that was. So my story is a funny one. Can I go back and talk about undergrad because I feel like that. Okay so having the background I did when I decided I wanted to be an SLP. I thought. In my mind, which is a fair assumption, I thought because this is a field that works with disabled people that me as a disabled person would be accepted generally and the environments have to go in. And that was not the case, like an undergrad in my first SLP class, and a bunch of us that had a disability and needed accommodations. Went up to our professor after it was an anatomy class and at this university, like we had to when you enroll in the disability office, you got like a paper that said, you have accommodations and you would give that to the professor and this is pre COVID. So we were in person and a bunch of us went up to this professor gave them our papers and then they looked at us and pulled us. To the side of the class in a circle, literally like in front of everyone, and basically said that like this field is not going to accommodate people with disabilities. So get out now. And I just remember sitting there I don't know if I just did it process, or I just am so used to like people telling me what I can and can't do right so I, I remember like the other people were just. I go what did you say? And I was just sitting there. And then I think we just walked away. I forgot. And then I remembered that later on, like processing that and I'm like, Oh, that's what they told us. Like they told us that we can't be an SLP. And that started this Unfortunately, I feel like that was the start of just discrimination in my entire undergraduate experience. And so with that, why I wanted to talk about that is I feel like something to that's important to talk about is, in my undergrad program, they told us a lot that you won't get into any schools if you have They told us 3.8 will get you waitlisted. Yeah, 3.9 maybe and then it was like 4.0. So that was our range. And so me like I had a lot of professors that wouldn't accommodate me. And so that kind of puts me in the back and I feel like I got a lot of like it puts me behind people is what I felt like it's what I'm trying to say. And I had my grit. I didn't have a 4.0. I had a 3.6 GPA. I feel like that's also not talked about that much. I know you talked about that on your Instagram, which I appreciate. And I know a lot of people do too, but I did not have a 4.0. I had a 3.6. And so all my professors were telling me you aren't going to get in anywhere. And that GPA is too low. And so I applied anyways, because this is what I wanted to do. And I my personal statement, I just put a lot like it. Basically, my personal statement was like my story from undergrad, high school, even undergrad, like all of it. And I applied to five schools and I got into four. Yeah, which I feel like it's not, I don't, I know you hear stories of people like saying that they got into one or they got waitlisted at one and I had friends that only got into one. So I did not expect, especially with everyone. Saying how, oh, you're not going to get in if you don't have a 4 0 or if you have a 3 9 and then people on top of that telling me you're not going to get in because you have a disability. And then I got into four schools. Yeah. It is so crazy to me how undergraduate faculty members feel the need to tell us what we can and cannot do. Yes, that's, that was wild to me too because, y'all job is to just teach us like you don't, I don't like that. Yeah, I just, it's wild to me that people think they can just tell a student, Oh, this isn't the field for you. Yeah, and you're exactly right their job is to teach us and sometimes they don't even do that. No, they don't. I'm like, it's. Yeah, that, it absolutely boggles my mind when, people who are supposed to be in, a position of our life that's going to catapult us into a next like kind of educational level of that subject are telling us like, hey, you're not good enough. And, had you not been such a strong hearted individual and have such a passion for speech pathology and knew this is exactly what you want to do. One little second of doubt could have caused you to not apply and you could have been in a completely different position today. just because of that one person who decided that just because they weren't confident in their life, they wanted to spread that out onto you. Yeah, exactly. And I think about that all the time. If I didn't have a strong passion for the field, or it was just something that, I was just taking classes towards and I didn't know. And someone told me that I would be, Oh, okay. They're probably right because they're the professor, so I'm just going to change my major. I think about that a lot too. And I think professors, I don't know if they realize or they know, and they don't care how much power and influence they have over people where they could literally get people out and I know it happens persuade people to leave. That could be amazing. SLPs. and really change our field. Exactly. And I think that, for a long time, our graduate school in, our graduate schools in the United States went along that line of if you don't have, some sort of 3. 9 to 4. 0 GPA, like you, it's just not a go for you, don't even try. But that was so long ago. And I feel like there's so many new graduate schools now, or so many more graduate schools that are learning how to accommodate their students. Yeah. In different ways so that they're not only looking at GPA. They're not only looking at GRE scores because all of those just numbers don't tell you much about four years of experience that I had an undergrad like my freshman year is completely different from the person that I was my senior year. Exactly. Yeah. And most people who go away to school to like, people are what, I don't know, 18 years old when they go to college, like my 18 year old self is completely different than who I was junior and senior year. So I think that should happen in graduate school. And I'm just saying this, I don't think it'll ever happen. But I feel like they should just look at the last 60 credits because I was so much more serious about college in My junior and senior year, when I knew that I wanted to be a speech pathologist, when I knew I wanted to go to graduate school, I had a purpose now. And I wasn't just taking these like math 101 when I'm not good at math. Yeah. The most ran the most random classes. Like I think I was taking like it was cool though, but my like sophomore year, I took like math across cultures and it was like random classes like that. Exactly. And, I want to touch upon something that you mentioned also, where you said that there's some professors that didn't even accommodate you for the accommodations that you needed, and that is just so frustrating to hear because that's their legal job. Their job is to accommodate you, to put you on the level playing ground, just as everyone else, because that is what you deserve. Yeah. And not only that, but it was really surprising because this field works with disabled people. So the fact that you don't want to accommodate your student, I always thought, do you treat your clients like that? I'm confused. Yeah. I thought that's literally our job is to accommodate, support, and advocate for the people we work with. And that should also extend to university students. Absolutely. Absolutely. Our field is the foundation of our field is built upon advocacy, communication, and supporting our clients. And it boggles my mind that when students ask for that advocacy, students ask for those accommodations, it's then looked upon as oh, you're being lazy. You're being lazy. You're trying to make things easy for you. Everyone else can do it. So you can to like, no, I need these accommodations. Yeah. And do I remember I got so frustrated in undergrad because I had a professor that gave me accommodations, but gave me a really hard time about it. And then I was in their office hour and one of the accommodations was because this was a professor that liked to do that thing where they give out the notes but it's like blank. I don't know if you ever had a professor like that gives out the notes, but some of them are blank. So you have to come to class to write them down. And so for me, which I get the intent because they want you there and listening. I understand that. But for me, it's really hard because it's hard for me to write and to write super fast. So I remember asking. I don't remember exactly, but I think basically I wasn't able to get. The notes like as an accommodation, I wasn't able to get the filled out notes. And then I was in an office hour and this professor said, Yeah, I feel so bad for you because I would sit in the front. And they said, Yeah, I feel so sorry for you because I see you like struggling in class to write the notes out. And so in my head. I thought, okay, then accommodate me struggling to help me. So I think that's something too. I don't know. It feels like that a lot of the times, even if that's not their intent. It feels, that it's sink or swim and the best people will be in our field anyway. We're not going to really help you along the way. That's how it felt for me. Yeah. And it's scary to advocate for yourself. Sometimes you have to put yourself in a situation or like kind of the mentality say, okay, I know I need this. I just need to ask for it. And, it's really hard to ask for help sometimes. And then where you're. Shot down by people like your professors who were just like, no, thanks. I see you struggling and it's really sad to watch, but I'm not going to do anything about it. Okay. And then, again, going back to the whole thing had you not, or have you not been like such a strong hearted person who knows exactly what they need and knows how to ask for it? You could have just been. Totally embarrassed to then ever ask for accommodations for yourself ever again. Yeah, because I remember thinking, okay, then do I need to look a different way in class? Is it that obvious that I'm struggling? Do other people around me think that, it's very it hurt my self esteem in that way. I don't know. It was very, it made me more self conscious. Exactly. And you honestly are just there to do what everyone else is doing. Yeah, like I'm just here to get the notes, listen to your lecture, get the notes, and then leave. Yeah. That's so hard. But so you went, you applied to graduate school, you got into four, which is amazing. Oh, that's, I did want to go back to that. Yes, 4. 0 GPA not realistic for most people in undergrad. If someone tells you that, just, Brush them off because I got in with a 3. 2 GPA. Yes. I applied to eight schools. I got into one and all I needed was that one to take a chance on me. But if you know that you have a passion for speech pathology, not everyone you meet is going to be on your team. Not everyone you meet is going to be rooting for you. You just got to walk past them and just know exactly what you want. It may take one. Application round, it may take two, it may take four. But, if you know that this is what you want to don't give up on yourself. No, and I think people saying that, oh, you need a certain range. I think that is a way to keep people out of her field. Maybe I really don't know the reason. That's my guess that it's a way to keep people out of the field or keep it where it's. Just 4. 0, just people with 4. 0 GPAs, which is fine. And I'm not getting on here and trying to discredit anyone that has a 4. 0. But I think it's important to remember, too, that's like academic work. And when you go into grad school, it's clinical work where you're literally sitting in front of someone and working with someone. And so it's great if you have a 4. 0 or really high GPA and you're good at test taking. That's great. But then you also need to know clinical skills. And I think that's something that I don't know. I think that's something too, that we need to, I wish the field would talk about more. And I'm not saying that, Oh, people with 4. 0s don't have clinical skills, but it's so different. Absolutely. You need people skills. To be a psychologist, bottom line. And that's another thing I talk about too within graduate schools. And I think that, yes, of course we need to show what our GPA is. Yeah. The GRE, I think, personally, is absolutely pointless. And it's just another form of discrimination because not everyone has the money or the resources to actually do test prep. So that puts people who don't have that at a whole different level, which is so weird. But I think that interviews. Are key to grad school applications. I think that every school should do an interview because it gives people the opportunity to say, okay, this is who I am on paper, but this is who I am in real life. Because I was so much more different person in real life, and I was shown on my paper or my kind of transcripts and stuff but going back to GPA, like you have people who are going post bach to graduate school like 10 years after they've already graduated college, so now you're trying to tell me that you're going to judge these people on grades from 10 years ago on how well they could be a speech pathologist? It just doesn't make any sense. But let's go back to thinking about you. So you got into four. How did you decide which school to go to? Because this is a thing too, when people get into more than one school and they always say Sam, how do you decide? And I'm like, honestly. You have to decide what school is best for you. I always tell people, ignore what the statistics are and all of that, because the statistics may not line up with what you want. For me, I wanted to go to a school that had lots of support, and lots of external, externship experiences. I wanted the experiences. And that's the school that I went to. Yeah. So for me, I have an interesting story with this too. So I got into my first grad school March of 2021, like early March. And I remember thinking, because of my experience with undergrad, I wanted to be very intentional in picking a school that would be accepting of me as a disabled person, my accommodations, and just not just tolerate my presence in their program, but actually accept it. And so I got into my first program and I was really excited and I, and I thought, okay, I need to meet with someone from the program to ask about accommodations and start, realistically, this is if I know what I want to be intentional and asking about these things I need to ask. So I made an office hour with someone from this university that I got into. And I remember going on the zoom. It was on zoom. And I said, yeah, I want to ask about accommodations in your clinic. And they looked at me and said what do you mean accommodations? And I was like, oh, disability related accommodations. And because I disclosed my disability. And talked about it in my personal statements. I just assumed that these programs, especially ones that accepted me, knew already that I was disabled. So I was just, oh yeah, I'm just asking about accommodations. And they said, for what? And I'm like, oh, I have cerebral palsy. I need accommodations. I just want to talk to you about it. And they looked at me and said. Oh, we didn't know you had a disability. And the way they said it like they looked like scared like the way their body language was. And I just remember sitting there, and I was at home because it was in the pandemic. And I remember later. My mom was in the other room and she said, I heard that person say that, like that they didn't know that. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm sure your mom with her mom, like she was ready to go into that room. Yeah yeah, I think she was just shook and she was in another room and then after she like moved right in front of my door, she was like, what the heck is going on? And then, we were talking and it just didn't really seem, it really seemed to bother this person that I had a disability and I was asking about accommodations and the answers were really short and a, Oh, I don't know if that would work. Just not really. Validating at all. And then they kept bringing up, Oh, we didn't know you had cerebral palsy, but now that you said something we can tell. Yeah. And my mom heard that too. And after, did that person say that to you? And I, yeah. And I just, I don't know how I reacted. I think I just said thank you and then cut it off, but I was like in shock because no one has ever said that to me. That is wild. And I'm so happy you can laugh about it now, but that is so hurtful. Yeah. That is just, that, I cannot believe that those words came out of someone who's in the position of welcoming new graduate students. Yeah, exactly. And in a very a shameful, I think something that I don't like a lot that just makes me mad in general is people think that they can tell me how to feel about my disability, and that's very much what this person was doing, like projecting their discomfort onto me. And making me feel like it was shameful that I had CP. Yeah. It's wait, I'm the one that has a disability and you're looking at me. If there's something. If that's wrong, like you're the one that accepted me into your program. Yeah, that's my personal statement. That was about me and the disability that I have. So where's the disconnect here? Yeah. And there was an interview for that program. It was a zoom interview, but I remember talking in that interview about, I think something came up about how do you work as A person in the clinic or something like that. And then I think I mentioned something about, oh, my disability forces me to be flexible. And yeah, I talked about it, which is it's a wild and I don't know, this brings up a really important point that, not. It's really disheartening to get a denial from a graduate school, I really is, but sometimes they are truly a blessing in disguise, because not every graduate school is for every single person, and I'm so glad that you took the opportunity to, talk to them, because had you not, Talk to them, it was your first acceptance and you just said, all right, this is it. I got accepted. I'm going to go. Your grad school experience could have been completely different. Yeah, and I think it's very irresponsible then on their part to if you really don't, if you really didn't know. Some like key things that someone put in their statement because that really could have been my only acceptance and then you telling me basically, they didn't come out and say we don't want you in our program, but they, the way that they made me feel is very much like it. There was no excitement or anything like that. But if that was my only program, that would be my only decision. So I think it's irresponsible on programs parts of that, if you're not really. Being, I feel like we just put so much into our applications and then to not, consider it, or I don't want to assume, but to not consider it or something, I think that's just like off putting. Yeah, and it's just also not fair to you that people just still have this view that people with disabilities are less. No, like that is not it like you are going in or you are in a speech pathology program and you have such different and great like life skill experiences that you can talk upon that you can share with your classmates so that you can share with your clients like people look at SLP students with a disability as a disadvantage when they're so much more an advantage than most other people because you are coming with the experience you know what it feels like to be shot down by professors. You know what it feels like to not get the accommodations you need. So when you're in a situation where you're the SLP and your client is not getting the accommodations, I bet you, you are going to go right to whoever you need to go to. You better fix this right now. And that is the passion that like. So many other people can't provide. And I think that's why we need to have this conversation out loud, exactly. So we got into graduate school. You picked the one that you like first semester. How was it? It was a little different. So I'm at San Francisco State. And so when I started in 2021, we were still. Pandemic. So our first semester was gonna be online. But so that was a little different and nerve wracking starting a new program online. But it was good. I all the professors were really supportive. It was a really supportive environment. I think something that I really liked about San Francisco State and why it was one of the schools that I was really interested in is it's really centered and focused on social justice. And that was, it's really. Evident and obvious in this program that all of our classes we talk about equity and anti discrimination like that's the base of these classes already. And then we just build on the topics and yeah, it was really a supportive environment, academic and class wise for me, clinic was a little bit of a learning curve because it was online, but not only that, I think for me, just learning, yeah. Leaning into what it means for me to be a disabled clinician, how to ask for support and, like, how to ask for accommodations and help. Is something I had to learn along the way. That was hard in the beginning being a 1st time clinician, it was hard for all of us, but then on top of that. When something went wrong, trying to tell myself, this doesn't mean you can't be an SLP, you just have to think of a different way to do it, and how to ask for accommodation so you could do it that different way. And do you feel like there were many people, whether like on the Instagram world or in your school or just in the world of speech pathology in general that you can reach out to for advice like that for like being a disabled clinician, probably not many people, right? No, I'm an undergrad. I didn't really know any disabled people that were also SLPs, but then when the pandemic happened and we went on lockdown, I remember just like going on Instagram and I guess just like trying to find other disabled people and they aren't out there. But I think now people are more comfortable with sharing their story. There's Facebook groups for SLP's with disabilities. There's student organizations now that there's a lot of resources out there that I didn't know back in 2019 that I'm a part of now. So when I was going through that, I was able to like post on a Facebook group and say, Hey, I'm really struggling with this. It was. An AAC clinic. So for me, it was really hard to hold up like my iPad on the screen and show because my hands get shaky. And yeah, I was just asking, does anyone else experiences anyone else have suggestions and people did and they were helpful. So I think that's. That's why like I really love community because people have a lot of wisdom and you can share it and then help people, especially if you find like a community that's like non judgmental and just give me all the questions you need. And, if I have an answer I'll provide it to you and I'm so happy that you found a community that you can reach out to because that just, it makes such a difference. It makes graduate school feel so much less alone. And sometimes when we go through happy parts of grad school, like the bad grades and stuff like that. And you can just reach out to people and say I got a bad grade. And it's okay, we all did at some point in graduate school. Like you are not going to fail. You're still going to be a successful SLB. You're still going to be great, but you reached the point of a bad grade. And I know exactly how that feels. So speaking on kind of the community and, being part of groups that you feel welcomed in, you started a little group yourself, didn't you? Yeah. So okay, so when we had orientation for my program, I remember my, one of the professors, Was saying that of anyone wants to start an infinity group in the program for just, different groups of people or shared interest or whatever that is, you can. And so I remember thinking, Oh, it'd be so cool to have. A group of disabled students, so just a meeting space for people to come and talk and have support and to share a community. And so I reached out to that professor with my idea to make an affinity group for disabled students, and it would be. Because everyone at that orientation was undergrad and graduate, so it would be for the undergrads and the grad students. And, yeah, my program was really supportive. They were like, oh, yeah, okay, let's do it. So we reached out to NYSSLHA and then they helped us advertise it. And yeah, what it is, it's basically a meeting space. We meet once a month. And I start, we started it last year, February 2022. Anyone can come, it's for disabled undergrad and grad students, but I don't ask anyone like, oh, show me proof that you're disabled. Just come if you want to come. And then we just share resources. We talk sometimes about disability, sometimes not. And it's been a really cool experience in that way. And it's cool too for me and other people to get to meet undergrads and. Then, I have, I'm in that position in a way to say, Hey, if you're feeling discouraged, which I know people were. I'm a grad student. Other people here are grad students. We're disabled. And so if that can give you any kind of, hope, maybe or some kind of representation like that's all that really matters, right? Or just someone to talk to and say I know exactly what you're going through. Here's my advice. Or, I hear you. I know exactly how that feels. I'm here to support you. Just hearing that sometimes it's just a form of comfort that we didn't realize we needed. Yeah. Absolutely. So talking more about just like representation and being a disabled SLP, do you communicate with your clients that you have a disability? Do you just keep it on the hush? How do you go around doing that? Yeah. So when I started my, when I started my internships I was my 1st 1 was at a school. It was in person full time all week. And I remember asking my supervisor about Oh, how do you think we should address my disability or how you know what. What do you think we should do? Because that was my first time navigating something like that. And so my supervisor was, that's all up to you. Like you, it's in your hands. You can do what you want. So I, when I went into my placement, I didn't say anything to the kids. I didn't like. Say, Oh, I'm miss Angela and I have a disability. And kids have been asking me like, Oh, why do you walk like that? What's wrong with your legs? And I would explain, and then it was so cute to see kids. I remember this one kid, I was walking this group of kids back to their class. And one of the kids looked at my leg and asked me, Oh, what's wrong with your legs? Like, why do you walk like that? And I said, Oh, I was born that way. And just talking to them and just their face. They were like, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Wow. And I think that's so important. Because maybe those kids never knew about disability or, it's something, and they're in speech, they have IEPs. And so I think it's just an important conversation. Yeah, and it's just an important part of representation too, right? Because I think that I, when I was growing up, at least, or, years ago, it was always seen as oh, the disabled students are in one room and we don't really see them in school at all. And just hearing their reaction is just so awesome. It puts it into a situation where it's like, You are just representing the disabled world in such an amazing way and just showing that you can really do whatever you put your mind to, no matter what professor in undergrad says. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that too, there was another cool moment in my school internship where I was walking back, I think I was walking back from taking my kids back to class. And. Just some kid outside looked at my legs and then looked at me, so I thought, okay, they're going to ask. And they said, are you a teacher? And I just said, yeah, I am. I didn't explain no, I'm speech. I just said, yeah, I'm a teacher. And then they just looked at me and they smiled. And so I'll never know what they were smiling, but in my mind, I'm like, they got to see a disabled person in that teaching position. And it's so important. Exactly. Disabled is no longer a dirty word. It never was, but we're making sure that it's really not a dirty word now because there are so many accommodations out there now that can be given that people can do whatever the heck you want. And honestly, like there's a lot of people call disabled people call themselves like the great life hackers because we're able to think of solutions. And honestly, a lot of solutions also help people without disabilities. And so if we can think of solutions to get around ableist barriers and stuff, that's really huge. And I wish that people would see the value in that more instead of just pushing people away. Because when you collaborate with disabled people, like there's a lot of. Innovation there. Absolutely. Yeah, you guys are like problem solvers, there's a problem. I'm going to find a way that will allow me to do this. And that's amazing. Even tick tock like tick tock. I know people have their opinions about it, but I have learned so much about the disabled community about the autism community about just so many different parts of life where I'm like, wow, there are so many solutions that are being created by, people with disabilities that are going, like you said, are going to help people without disabilities, are going to help children with disabilities, are going to help people in the school system with disabilities, in the professional world, everything. And that is where our society is going. And that's what makes me happy to be on this earth. Now there's a lot of other crazy things going on, but still I'm just so happy that you're in a position where you can chase your dreams and, be the speech pathologist You needed when you were younger and you're doing amazing work. Thank you. Yeah, and it's so cool to be in the position to talk to I get messages a lot from undergrads or first year grad students. And it's really cool to be in a position to say, this is how I did things. It's like writing a survival guide in a way, like a how to guide, and then sharing that. Because now to me, it's okay, I got through, so now I feel like my job is to help everyone get through here's the door that I opened. Y'all can come on come in the party's in here, let's go. That's what it feels like. It feels like, yeah, a house, like I bought a house and I'm opening my door and I'm like, come in, y'all y'all can be in here we can be in here. And so it's a really cool experience. Yeah. And you're doing such amazing things. Do you have a speech Instagram specifically for that? That's your next step. I'll help you do that, because I think that, like you said, opening that door to the Instagram world and all the other SLP's there, you may even talk to people who are in high school still, in the position that you were, I want to be an SLP, but a lot of people are telling me I can't. And you're like, heck yeah, you can yeah. Do you have any advice for kind of people who are listening who have a disability that either are On the road to become an SLP or already an SLP and just still feeling like they don't belong. I would say stay true to yourself because I, it took me so long to, when I was an undergrad, I thought. You know that people's reactions to me and my disability was a reflection of myself like there's something that I'm doing wrong or maybe am I talking about my disability too much in class? Am I not talking about it enough? And I think to just remember that the way people respond to disability is not really your problem or your responsibility to And get through our process. And so I think that's something, and it's a really hard mindset to get to it took me years. But I think just remembering stay true to yourself, everyone's everyone has a different reason for coming into this field and everyone's reason for wanting to be an SLP is valid. And so just sticking with that, remember, remembering your why and why you want to do this and not letting anyone stop you, even though I know that's easier said than done. But even just remembering that, that professor or that student or anyone that's making you feel that way. That's not a reflection of you. That's not like any indication that you're a bad person like just keep doing you and do what you need to do. If your journey or your way of doing things is not the way that people without disabilities do stuff who cares, just do it and. Do your own path. And I think that would be something that I like wish I could go tell my undergrad self. Yeah, the way that people are responding to you is not because of you. It's absolutely because of them and whatever they're going through in life and they're just portraying it on you. Yeah. Yeah. I love that point of advice. And like you said, it is a lot easier said than done, but as you're working through that you're going to get to a point like Angie is now where she's just no one can tell me what I can and cannot do. You watch me become this SLP and you watch me be really freaking good at it too. Yeah. And I just, yeah, I'm just like over here, like I it's like a book of knowledge and I'm like, yeah, I know what I know now. And I can share that. Exactly. Thank you so much. This was an amazing conversation and I appreciate you coming on. And I'm really proud of you and I'm really excited to get this conversation going because I don't think this should be the last conversation that we have. I would love to talk to you once you graduate or once you're done what your plans are because I feel like you just have such a beautiful brain full of information and full of things that you want to do to help. SLPs with disabilities to help people with disabilities, just the disability community in general, and I'm so excited to see what you're going to do. I'm always here to help you and let's do this. Yeah, thank you so much for having me and then if anyone listening like want support or resources or even wants to know Facebook groups or wants to know groups of people that are also disabled just reach out to me and I can send you everything I haven't known. She'll send you her book of knowledge. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna post your Instagram on the below the podcast so that people can join quickly. But yeah, thank you so much for joining and we will see you next time. Thank you.